Kathleen Budny: We are so pleased that you have taken the time out of
your schedule to join today's webinar.
Um, it's on employment issues in a pandemic.
Ah, the event is brought to you buy the members of A.I.G.A., the
professional association for design.
Our guest speaker today is attorney Wendy Stryker, co-chair of the
employment group at Frankfurt Kurnit.
She represents marketing services agencies, media and entertainment
companies, tech start-ups, and other corporations and executives in
New York state and federal courts.
Wendy also effectively plays the role of outside general counsel.
She advises on a wide variety of employment issues as they arise,
including discrimination and harassment, employee classification, wage an hour,
employee discipline, employee use of social media, background checks,
interview questions, and requests for disability accommodations.
She regularly helps clients manage litigation risk through expert guidance
and the design and implementation of compliance and training programs.
Wendy is a member of the Board of Directors of the New York Civil Liberties
Union, and is a member of the New York City Bar Association Labor and Employment
Law Committee, and the Media Law Resource Center Employment Law Committee.
She has successfully represented two New York City tenant advocacy
groups on a pro bono basis, helping them to defeat on First Amendment
grounds a landlord's attempt to ban their community service efforts.
Prior to journ- joining Frankfurt Kurnit, Wendy was a law clerk
to the Honorable Michael H.
Dolinger, United States Magistrate Judge for the south-
southern district of New York.
She is admitted to practice in New York.
Facilitating our Q and A after her presentation today is educator and
management consultant Shel Perkins.
Please welcome Wendy.
Wendy Stryker: Thank you.
Thank you, everyone, for having me here today, and thank you for the introduction.
I...
I really like that I got in the plug for pro bono work, too.
Uh, I think it's important in the times we're in now to, to be focusing not
just on, on the problems that we're all experiencing, but on the things
that we can be doing to help others.
So, thank you.
I...
I like that that got in there.
Um, uh...
Also, I think as, as mentioned, I am an attorney, ah, practicing in New York.
I know that, um, I'm going to be talking to a group of you today who
are in other states, so I'm, I'm going to do my best to talk to...
about issues globally, um, or, um, kind of call out when
they might be state-specific.
And, I've done a little bit of looking into how some other states
handle things, but I think it is something to just kind of...
to flag at the outset.
I am a New York practitioner.
My, my law firm has offices also in California, so I might be
talking a little bit more about New York and California, but, um, I'm
going to do my best to speak to...
to everybody on these issues.
So, um, you know...
We, we got together and talked today about, "What are some of the...
What are some of the things that an employment lawyer
could talk about that people...
You know, that would be helpful to workers to hear, you know,
in, in our current times?"
And there's, there's a longer list than what I've got on the agenda today.
These are, these are some of the things that we thought
were most, um, relevant to...
to the largest group, to talk about new laws that, um, have kind of come into
play in this, in this post-COVID-19 world, many of which revolve around,
um, sick leave, uh, and, and benefits.
Um, you know, how to pay workers.
That being said, I...
I understand that there have already been some webinars on the...
the CARES Act and, you know, small business loans, so we're not
going to be talking about that.
But, there are other aspects of the CARES Act and benefits for
folks who are out of work that we are going to be talking about.
So, these, these are the three topics that we've, we've come up with.
These new sick leave laws, how they interact with existing laws, um,
pay cuts, furloughs, and layoffs.
Something that, uh, you know, is happening, unfortunately
widely and is impacting, you know, many, many, many of us.
Um, and, and what are the...
what are unemployment benefits?
Who are they available to?
How do they work?
And, what are the new laws that make additional sets of benefits available
that weren't available pre-COVID-19?
So, I, I know there are a lot of other topics.
If, you know, when we get to the Q and A there is other COVID-related
employment burning questions that people have, I'm willing to give it a go.
Um, but this is...
this is what we're going to cover now.
So, the...
the very first question...
I mean, what happens in this current pandemic if I get sick?
Uh, what are the laws that are out there that might protect me?
Um, or the benefits that are available during the period
when I'm not able to work?
So, um, there are a few laws that I'm going to be, be talking about here.
This is, this is the slide, we'll go into it in more detail.
Um, the Family and Medical Leave Act...
This is an existing law.
It's been around since, you know, the Clinton Era.
Uh, the first Clinton.
The brand new Families First Coronavirus Response Act.
Uh, this is...
this one is also brand-new, went into effect April 1st of this year.
I'm going to be talking...
because some sta- some states, um, have come up with either new sick leave laws
to cover people who are impacted by COVID-19 or have expanded or elaborated
on their current sick leave laws to make clear that those benefits are available.
And, uh, there are also ways in which existing state disability
and state pa- paid family leave laws, uh, can be available under,
under current circumstances.
So, starting with the Family and Medical Leave Act.
Like I said, this...
this one's been around since the early '90s.
Uh, this is for employees only.
So, I, I'm going to try and make a distinction.
I know that we're talking to people who are both employees, you know, W-2
workers for, you know, a company of...
of any size.
Uh, and some of you work freelance or as contractors, meaning you
essentially work for yourselves.
And, there are a lot of the laws out there now are meant to protect only employees.
Um, Family and Medical Leave Act is one of them.
It's, uh...
it covers employers who have 50 or more employees, so if you're
working for a smaller company, this one's not going to be available.
It is available only for employees who've been working for a year or
more at that company and, and what it gives you is 12 weeks of unpaid
job-protected leave for a serious medical condition, or to care for a family
member with a serious medical condition.
Um, you know...
What is a serious medical condition?
It's...
you could go on for, you know, an all-day seminar on that, but it, it almost
certainly means, um, you know, having been diagnosed with, or having symptoms from...
from COVID-19.
Being unsymptomatic, maybe not.
Symptomatic, absolutely.
Um, but...
but the reason I want to raise this existing law is because this Family
and Medical Leave Act is the basis for our brand-new Federal Emergency
Paid Sick Leave Law, so when I talk about the Families First Coronavirus
Res- Coronavirus Act, um, it's been broken down into two pieces.
All right.
One is the paid sick leave piece, and the other is the paid family leave piece.
So, again, these are...
these are brand-new federal laws, so they apply to everybody, uh, who works
for a certain size company, all right?
And it's going to differ.
So, we're going to look at the, the paid sick leave piece first.
All right.
So, this applies to...
you can see this, and this is not a typo.
Uh, employers of fewer than 500 employees.
So, this is a law that was meant to apply to small companies only.
Uh, it...
Um, you know...
big, big companies are not covered by this law.
Don't ask me why, it seems like they would be in the better position
to provide paid sick leave, but, um, this is what the law is.
So, employers of...
If, if you work for a company with 500...
Fewer, I should say.
Fewer than 500, that company must provide a certain amount of paid sick leave,
um, for coronavirus-related absences.
Now, how much must they provide?
Now, remember.
This is not paid by the federal government directly.
This is something that employers...
companies have to pay, all right?
And, what do they have to pay?
It's two weeks of paid leave at your regular rate, but it's capped, all right?
Capped at $511 a day.
Um, so if you, um...
that, that is somewhat less than what you're used to making, um, you are
allowed to substitute your accrued P.T.O.
to get yourself up to full sick leave.
Uh, companies can't require you to do it.
Uh, there is also a recognition here that part-time workers
can be eligible for this leave.
It's just going to be, um, you know...
figuring out...
your rate's going to be a little bit different, it'll be by, uh,
your average number of hours.
Um, so...
What do you have to do?
What, what are you allowed to use this leave for?
Again, it's for people who are unable to work.
Unable to work.
So, if you're allowed to work from home, this does not apply.
Um, if you are unable to work because you have been quarantined, um, because
of a diagnosis or you are suffering from symptoms and have diagnosis.
So, you're actually sick yourself with COVID-19.
Um, and again, this, this law, unfortunately, is not available,
um, if your company has closed.
All right, so if you have a...
you work for an employer who has closed or shut down because, you know, it's
a work site where you have to go in?
Um, and they're closed for the duration?
Unfortunately, this particular leave is not available.
All right.
So, this is...
This is sick leave that is available, um, either for your
own use or to care for somebody.
Um, let's see...
No, I'm sorry.
For your, uh...
This is for your, for your, your own sick leave, not for care.
This is, this is if you are sick.
It's, it's two weeks only.
All right.
So, what happens after that?
Again, this is employer...
again, this is, this is the family leave piece of the new federal
law, also for companies that have fewer than 500 employees.
Um, this piece is a little bit different because I...
you don't...
you have to have been employed for at least 30 days.
Um, the other piece we were talking...
looking at, the sick leave, you could be a brand-new employee and you are entitled.
Um, so unlike the original Family Medical Leave, where you had
to be there a year, these new emergency pieces have a much, uh...
have, you know...
have had less significant restrictions.
Um, so, what is the family leave, what does it provide?
All right, so if you, um, need to care for a sick family member...
Either sick or, um, you're caring for a child whose school is closed
for COVID-19 reasons, which I believe right now is pretty much anybody
who has a school-aged child in this country is in this situation...
Um, you can take this leave for two weeks, um, at two-thirds your regular rate of
pay, and then up to an additional 10 weeks also at two-thirds your regular
rate of pay, again, um, to care...
Either to care for a sick child, or to care for a kid whose school is closed.
So, this is up to 12 weeks, um, and it is paid leave.
So again, the employer has to pay it, um, but the good news for companies if
anybody is listening who's a company...
Even though this is not something you would otherwise been required to pay,
um, the law does allow employers to seek a refund of any sick leave...
any paid sick leave through payroll tax credits.
So, um, you know...
If you have employees who are interested and eligible for this, uh, you know,
it's, it's recommended that folks take it, um, because the company
does have, you know, the ability to, to seek a return of, of this...
these funds.
Um, and again, employees can substitute accrued, um, vacation or sick days
in order to receive their full wages instead of the two-thirds, but.
but you're limited to 100% of wages.
People aren't...
You, you don't use this to get your full wages plus the extra.
Now, the...
the other component of this leave is that, uh, like the regular Family Medical
Leave, this is job-protected leave.
So, um, you know...
Employers, um, cannot discriminate against you or retaliate against
you for having taken these leaves.
They need to restore you to your same job or a similar job when you get back.
You know, that is, assuming that the job exists.
Um, you know...
There, there are certainly circumstances going on now where folks go out on
these leaves, and in the meantime the companies, um, you know, are
having a hard time swinging it, and they, they need to shut down.
Or, they, they lay off departments.
Or, you know, they furlough people and those kinds of things
are not necessarily protected.
Um, all right.
So, those are, those are the brand-new federal leaves that do provide, you
know, some relief and do provide some forms of, of, of paid protected leave.
Some states, uh, have stepped in and, um, have set up some new
emergency sick leave laws as well.
Uh, specifically, I believe Colorado, New York, and Washington.
And, um, there are some local...
Some, some cities, I think, mostly in California that
might have some new things.
Um, I'm going to speak specifically to New York because it's the one that I
know about, but I did do some research and have a little bit of collection
for folks that there are new laws in, in Colorado, New York, Washington.
And, plenty of these other states that I've got listed here, uh,
have put out some COVID-specific guidance about how their existing
sick leave law will interact with it.
Um, or specifically, that, that sick leave can be used for
certain COVID-related purposes.
So, for those of you in New York, um, this is actually, you know,
a pretty good sick leave law.
Um, it depends on the size of your employer what benefits you're
entitled to, and they kind of...
they...
they split the size of employers into three buckets, um, depending on...
on size and revenue.
So, if you work for a small employer, um, 10 or fewer and net rev- net income
under a million, um, you get unpaid leave.
Unpaid leave during a quarantine period, and just a reminder that,
that existing benefit programs like disability and New York Paid Family
Leave can be used for these purposes.
Um, the...
What we call the kind of...
the middle range employer, you have under 100, um, or 10 or fewer employers but
more than a million in net income, that goes up to five days of paid sick leave,
plus the unpaid to the end of quarantine.
And large employers, 100 or more employees, um, New York
obligates those employers to provide employees with 14 days.
That's not two, two weeks.
That's 14 actual business days of paid sick leave at your full rate.
Um, the other thing that's interesting is that that's not, um, that, that...
those 14 days, or the five days...
This is in addition to whatever sick leave employers have already provided.
So, if, if you have...
you work at a place that's already give you five, six,
seven days, um, seven days...
you now have 21.
Um, 14 of them can only be used for the coronavirus-related absences,
um, but, but they're there.
Um, so what are you allowed to use it for?
I think what the law says, um, that this sick leave is for folks who
are subject to an individual...
Uh, individual quarantine order.
So that doesn't mean the state stay at home order, it means that you've
actually got, um, an individual government issued stay at home order,
um, because you're sick, um, or to care for a minor child who has such
an order because of a positive test.
Um, you know...
How do you get these orders?
You can go, um...
There, there are links online on how to get them and your doctor can usually
just give you a note to go and, and get one of these government orders
that will entitle you to these...
to access these paid sick, these paid sick days.
Um, all right.
So...
so if you are lucky enough to be in a state that has and offers these state
emergency sick leave benefits, what does that mean with respect to the
federal benefits we just talked about?
Um, you know...
Do you get those, um, F.C.R.A., um, benefits and the state?
And the answer, at least in New York, is no.
Um, you get whichever one is bigger.
So, if you get five paid days, um, and...
or the, you know, the, the two-thirds wages under the federal, um, you get,
um, you get whichever one is bigger and more beneficial to you, but not both.
Um, and generally employers are going to say that the two
leaves are going to run together.
Whatever the package of leaves are that are available, they're all going
to run at the same time so you don't get to keep on stacking them out.
Although, hopefully, nobody, nobody is sick, I really hope, for that long.
Okay.
Um, all right.
So, what is there for you if you are not eligible for any of those paid leaves?
Maybe...
um, you know...
I'm that there's plenty of folks who are not employees, right?
You're, you're a freelancer.
You're a contractor.
You work for yourself.
Um, those leaves are not available to you.
What is there?
And, you know...
the good news is that we actually, as part of the new federal CARES
Act, there is now a benefit program that is available for other folks.
Um, so who's it available for?
Um, it's for anybody who does not qualify for, fo regular unemployment benefits.
Um, which basically means folks who are not employees, right?
Um, self-employed or independent contractors.
So, if you're self-employed, you're an independent contractor, and you can't
work because of any of these reasons that we have listed here, this program
called the panan- Pandemic Unemployment Assistance program is for you.
All right.
What...
what do you need to...
what are the reasons you can't work?
Again, it's...
it's almost all the coronavirus-related reasons you can think of.
You're sick, a member of your family is sick, you're caring for somebody outside
your immediate household who's sick, your kids can't go to school because
of the closure orders and you can't work, um, you can't get to work because
it's been closed because of quarantine.
Um, you know...
This is an interesting one, too.
You've become the major breadwinner because a head of
household died from COVID-19.
So, you're somebody who didn't work, but the worker in your family, um,
unfortunately passed away, this...
this benefit plan is actually available to you.
Um, if you had to quit your job as a direct result of coronavirus.
I'm not exactly sure what, what that means, but I think there's
some interesting interpretations we can take from that.
Is this because an employer was requiring people to come to work
in circumstances that felt unsafe?
Um, or, were not observing, you know, the essential business rules of the, uh, of
the stay at home orders, um, those could be some of the circumstances where you
had to quit your job because of that.
Um, or where you had your office closed.
And again, these...
These are also, you know, not available for folks who can tele-work and are still
getting their paycheck because of that.
Um, or, or, are able to work for those reasons.
But, these are, you know, a whole list of opportunities or circumstances where
there were never actually paid leave benefits available before, and this is,
this is solely a new thing, you know, as a result of the current pandemic.
Uh, currently this program is only in place through the end of the year.
Um, you know...
Um, and I'll be pointing out as we go through with some of these new programs
that some of them are time-limited.
Um, you know...
One of the things that I see in my practice every day is that these time...
You know, various time-limited plans or programs are, are extended because
they need to be, or re-funded.
But, for now, keep that in your head.
Through the end of the year only.
All right.
So, um...
Those were pay...
Okay, so...
So that was paid leave for folks who are not able to work.
All right.
What happens if you are able to work, um, but for whatever reason,
your employer's experiencing a downturn in, uh, in, in revenue?
Uh, you know, not that...
There's not as much work to go around so, you know, your company is experiencing
salary cuts, furloughs, and layoffs.
So, let's, let's talk about what those are and what they mean.
All right.
So, can your employer cut your salary?
All right.
Now, let's start with...
If you're, you're an independent contractor or a freelancer, you, you
probably, and you should be, working pursuant to a contract, all right?
And your contract governs the relationship and what can and can't be done.
Most of the time, they have termination provisions, um, and, you know, they
can be ended on a certain amount of notice, but while you're covered by the
contract, um, you have to be paid what your contract says you have to be paid.
Um, if you are an employee, um, it's not necessarily the same situation, right?
So, the question is: do you have a contract that guarantees your salary?
And most of us don't, all right?
So, most of us are what we call at-will employed.
I'm also...
I'm not going to talk about folks who are in a union, because
unions set their own rules.
But, we're going to be talking about the universe of, of non-unionized
employees where you can either have a contract that governs, um, your salary.
Or, most folks are at-will.
All right, so what does at-will mean?
Um, at-will is, is generally the norm here in, in most of the United
States, and it means that, uh, a worker can be fired for any reason
with or without notice except for the illegal reasons which are things like
discrimination, harassment, retaliation.
Um, but by the same token, um, workers are free to quit and leave
their job at any time for any reason with or without notice.
Um, so, you know, a logical extension of the at-will doctrine is that
employers can change your salary with or without notice, because if they can
fire you for any reason, then they can certainly offer you a reduced salary.
Um, you know, and if, if you don't like it, unfortunately the
remedy is to go find another job.
So, that being said, there are some caveats here to employers' ability
to impose unilateral salary cuts.
So, one of them is, um, you know, it depends on what kind of worker you are.
Most employees are divided into two categories, right?
They're either non-exempt, meaning entitled to overtime, or they are exempt,
meaning they can be required to work any number of hours for their set salary
without overtime, and, you know, how it's determined which you are, all right?
It's a two-part test, all right?
The test assumes...
the law assumes that everybody is entitled to overtime and is
non-exempt unless they fall into one of the exemptions, all right?
And, to fall into an exemption, it's a two part test.
One is, do you have the right job duties?
And, the other is, do you make a certain minimum salary?
It's called the salary-basis test.
Um, and those salary-basis tests vary state by state.
Um, but an employee cannot be reduced below their minimum salary
without the exemption being lost.
Now, you know, is that a violation of the law?
No.
Um, but once you are...
you know, if you are an exempt employee who's reduced below that minimum salary,
it means that you're now entitled to overtime and frankly, even when
things change and everybody goes back, hopefully, to the way things were, uh,
the exemption is still lost and you're still entitled to overtime, so that's
something employers really shouldn't do.
Um, and by the same token, non-exempt workers can have their
salaries reduced, but not below the applicable state minimum wage.
That would also be considered the state, uh, state wage an hour
law, um, and like I said, all...
the violation of the state minimum hour law, um, actually is more serious.
It's not just about an exemption, it's about, um, you know, lawsuits where
there can potentially be double damages and attorney's fees for failures to...
to comply with the law.
All right.
So, other caveat to a salary cut, um...
In some states, uh, you have to have a certain amount of notice, all right?
Generally, I would say it's, it's...
Everywhere, it can't be done retroactively, um, but prospectively,
some states, you know, require that you get the notice that your salary's
going to be changed in writing a certain number of days ahead of time.
From New York...
In New York, for example, seven days, seven days notice, written
notice before salary change.
Um, all right.
Other thing to note, if...
and, I'm going to talk about this more when we, um, go through unemployment.
Um, if you're hourly...
like I...
we've talked about salary reductions.
Um, the other thing employers are doing is reducing hours.
Now, that does kind of serve as a functional equivalent,
um, to reducing a salary.
Or, it can.
If you're an exempt worker, um, reductions in hours shouldn't really be happening.
They don't make a lot of sense, because exempt workers receive the same salary
for the number of hours they work, and if that's 10 hours a week or 60 hours a week,
they're supposed to get the same salary.
Um, so if there's not as much work, there's really no point in
making an exempt worker part-time.
Um, people do it.
You can have such a thing as a part-time exempt worker, but, um, that salary...
that minimum weekly salary basis has...
is not going to be pro-rata, all right?
So, if the minimum salary is 1125 a week, um, whether the worker's
full-time or part-time, it's 1125.
So, part-time doesn't always make sense for an exempt worker.
Um, but it...
if it happens, um, or for non-exempt workers, if your hours
are cut and you're only working...
you're working less than a full-time schedule, um, you should know partial
unemployment benefits, um, are available in most, if not all states.
It gets a little complicated, um, but they are absolutely available.
And, I'm kind of going to...
I'm going to go through some slides at the end and just
show how these things interact.
All right.
Okay, so furlough is the other word that we're hearing a lot, right?
We're hearing about furloughs and layoffs.
So, what...
what is a furlough?
Furlough is, essentially, a temporary layoff.
A layoff is intended to be full-time separation from employment.
Um, you know...
Generally refers to a, a group of people, um, at the same time being
temporarily separated from employment.
Um, furloughs are done when companies are very much hoping it's going
to be temporary and they would like to easily bring people back.
So, what is done is, like, employment is not actually terminated.
Um, workers are put on a temporary leave...
Unpaid, unpaid leave of absence, but most, most insurance companies right
now are working with employers and letting people stay on their company
health benefits while on furlough.
So, it means you continue to get your health benefits.
Um, companies may or may not require you to write the check for your share.
Um, a lot that I'm working with are covering that anyway, um,
but it's something they can do.
Um, and, and it's mean to be temporary.
Obviously, that can be changed at any time and converted to a termination,
but you do remain on the payroll so that when an employer calls you
back, um, the on-boarding process doesn't have to be redone with the
I-9s and filling out all your forms.
People can just get back to work easily.
Um, you know...
How long can a furlough last?
It's...
it is hard to say.
Obviously, employers are not going to allow furloughs to last longer than
they need to, because the company's continuing to pay your health benefits.
Um, so that's not going to go on forever.
Um, you know...
Generally, any kind of absence that tends to exceed six months is
going to be regarded as a layoff.
That's, that's not a specific law, but, um, you know...
It, it does tie into, to other notice provisions in other laws, so I...
I wouldn't expect a furlough to last longer than six months.
Um, I wouldn't expect it to last that long because there is, you
know, employer expense to it.
And, furloughs can also be rolling, which means it, it can...
Some, some employers, to save money, are rolling people on one week, off the week,
off another week, so you, you can expect that things could look like that, as well.
All right, so, um...
Layoffs.
All right.
Layoffs, as opposed to furloughs where you stay an employee on benefits, layoffs
are permanent separation from employment.
So, um, when can employers lay you off?
And again, with at-will employment, the answer is always,
"Whenever they want," right?
Um, anybody can be fired at any time for any reason except for the illegal
reasons, so it's always a question when there is a layoff or, or a group layoff
at your company, who's being selected, uh, and what is the reason that those
folks are being selected, um, and is it possible that it's on the basis
of a protected class characteristic?
Meaning, you know, is it just...
is it because of gender, or race, or age, or, or any of, any of those categories.
So, um, are you entitled to notice?
Um, all right.
This is an interesting question, right?
Um, you know...
Again, with at-will employment, any time for any reason.
But, um, sometimes there...
um, you know...
when employers of a certain size are laying off a large enough group of
people, we have something called a WARN Act, which is, um, kind of Worker
Adjustment Retraining Notification Act that generally, you know, has
requirements that folks be given 60 or 90 days when a layoff of that size
is happening, just so folks have the opportunity to look for other work.
Um, in the pandem- in this particular pandemic era, um, many states are
either waiving those notices or there...
companies are invoking these little-known, little-used exceptions, um, for what's
called Unforeseen Business Circumstances.
You know, like...
Nobody knew this was coming, and that's...
You know, if...
If ever there's a time for this very little-used provision to
be invoked, it is probably now.
Um, nobody saw this coming and there's just...
there is no ability to give people 60 or 90 day notice, so for
companies that are covered by WARN Acts, I am seeing this happen.
Um, it, it seems to make sense.
I mean, companies still have to give notice, they just don't
have to necessarily give 60 or 90 days notice, but notice is coming
and notice is still required.
Um, you know...
And, also, we're going to talk a little bit about separation agreements.
Um, and depending on the size of the layoff when we talk about that, that
different categories of folks might be getting different periods of time to,
to review their separation agreements.
All right.
So, um...
What, if anything, are you entitled to get if you are laid off from your employer?
All right, so obviously any time employment is separated, you're
entitled to your final paycheck.
That is, you know, you are entitled to be paid through the
last day you actually worked.
Uh, when are you entitled to get it?
It depends on your state.
Some states say next regular payroll.
Some say you've got to get that on your last day of work.
Um, accrued unused paid time off.
Again, that is a state-specific issue.
There are some states that say once you accrue that vacation, it can't be taken
away from you and you have to get it.
There are some states that say no you don't.
And, there are some states that say, as long as employer had a written
use it or lose it policy, um, they don't have to pay it out, either.
So, you know, it's a question to ask if this is your situation, "What's
the law in my particular state and what's the company's policy?"
All right.
Um, COBRA notice.
All right.
So, COBRA...
Again, this refers to your, um, your right to receive notice with respect to
continued coverage of your healthcare.
COBRA generally...
not always, but generally covers employee...
employers who have, um, at least 20 employees, and what it means
is that you, um, have the...
you are entitled to the right to continue your current healthcare at
your own cost, not at employer cost.
Um, so you're entitled to get that notice, and you're entitled
to have that opportunity.
If you are, you know, in a company that is covered by COBRA.
And again, another thing...
What are you entitled to receive?
Are you entitled to your unreimbursed business expenses?
That depends on your company policy.
But, if you're looking at the list of things...
Like, "I've just been laid off, what should I be getting?"
Take a look at what your policy is to make sure you've gotten those back.
Um, you know...
You'd be surprised the number of times when people are either looking
at separation agreements, um, or, you know, trying to file for unemployment
benefits, that they forget that the company still has this money
coming, and sometimes you have to ask and ask for it until you get it.
Um, all right.
So, you, um...
All right.
So, let's...
What about severance?
Is severance an entitlement?
Does your company have to give you severance if you have been fired?
And, the answer is "No."
There is no state that I am aware of that is...
that requires companies to pay severance as a matter of law.
Now, many companies as a matter of internal policy have severance
plans, and if they have such plans they're obligated to follow them.
Um, but severance is not actually a legal right.
Now, many companies, um, you know...
Even now, um, are offering severance in exchange for a
written separation agreement.
So, if you hare handed such an agreement, um, what can you expect to see in it?
All right, so I think...
If you're handed...
Actually, if you're...
If you're terminated with or without severance, I think that my first piece
of advice would be, "Go back and look.
Are there any agreements that you signed when you started employment?"
Because if you take a look at those, there might be some things in there
that you've forgotten about, um, that contain obligations on your part to
continue even after employment's over.
And, those are things like, um, confidentiality, uh, non-disparagement,
which means no saying anything bad about the company, you
know, whether it's true or not.
Uh, no saying anything bad.
Um, there might be non-competes or, or, or agreements not to solicit
clients or fellow employees.
So, go and see what you signed already.
Um, now what is likely to be in a separation agreement?
If they are offering you money...
And, sometimes it's money, and sometimes it is an agreement to
cover your COBRA costs for a period of time or, if you're lucky, both.
Um, they're going to want you to sign a release of claims, meaning
essentially a promise that you will not sue them for anything that happened,
you know, while you were employed or in connection with your employment.
Um, and that releases clause can also include a provision that gives
you ti- it's going to say, "You've got X number of days to look at
this and to talk to a lawyer and decide if you want to accept this."
And, how much time you get is going to vary company by company, and,
and frankly by how old you are.
Um, in order for a company to obtain a valid release of an age
discrimination claim, um, employees need to be provided with at least
21 days to review their agreement.
And, even after they sign they still get another seven days to say, "You know what?
I changed my mind.
I would like it back and to revoke."
That is absolutely required in any agreement that contains, um,
an age discrimination release.
Um, and if it's the group layoff, meaning there's at least two of you being
laid off, um, that 21 days goes to 45.
Um, all right.
What else are you going to find in there?
Again, these are all the clauses I kind of already talked about.
Um, if you didn't sign these promises on the way in, somebody might be
asking you to sign one on the way out that you're going to keep everything
confidential that you learned, um, and sometimes that if you're signing a
separation agreement, you'll also keep the separation agreement confidential.
This is standard, it's normal.
Um, again, non-disparagement, that means that you will...
you're promising not to say anything bad about the company, true or not.
So, don't, don't mix this up with defamation, right?
Defamation is illegal whether you sign anything or not, and
that's saying bad, untrue things.
Um, non-disparagement is, "I don't care if it's true or not,
it could be the realest thing.
You promise not to do it."
Um, and this is also sometimes an opportunity for some
negotiation on your end.
Um, you know...
What is it that the company's going to say or not say to people about me, all right?
So, this is the time...
the neccess- to sometimes have conversations...
You know, does the company have a neutral reference policy?
Are they going to say...
are they just going to stick to the facts, you know, dates of employment and title.
Um, what else might they say?
Um...
Or, to potentially, if you can, try to negotiate...
if you've already signed a non-compete or a non-solicit, you know, this is
your time to potentially see if you can negotiate a way out of that.
Okay, um, all right.
So, you...
Layoffs have happened.
Um, you know...
You...
or...
were either lucky or, or not lucky enough to get separation pay.
Are there any other benefits that are available?
And, I think most folks know about unemployment, although
maybe not in, in the detail that we need to know about it now.
But, also brand-new...
And, this is in the new CARE of the...
the CARES Act...
We have three brand-new categories of unemployment.
Now, I'm going to go through the general eligibility for unemployment,
but usually you have to have been an employee and you have to have paid
in for a certain number of quarters.
So, what about if you're not in those categories?
What if you're a freelancer?
Um, what if you didn't work and pay in the requisite number of quarters?
Where is the social safety net for you?
And, this is a really good question that I...
You know, I think that, that has been going on for a long time.
And, at least for the near future, the CARES Act has answered it, all right?
We talked at the outset about this new pandemic.
Um, is it...
Which one is it?
Yeah, the Pandemic Unemployment Assistance, the third one on
the list, which is kind of like unemployment for folks who are
contractors or freelancers or don't have enough of an employment history.
So, at least through the end of the year, you guys are covered.
Um, is that going to be enough?
Um, because of the CARES Act, we now have two new categories
of unemployment benefits, right?
One of them is an extension of the number of weeks of eligibility.
So, an additional 13 weeks of coverage.
Right now, every state's unemployment, um, eligibility is
limited for a number of weeks.
I'm actually going to show you a chart where I take in a sampling, but it ranges
from 12 to 26, never goes higher than 26.
The new law provides an extra 13 weeks through the end of the year.
Um, and the other really interesting one is, um, the Pandemic Unemployment
Compensation, which is saying that, you know, so long as you are
eligible for even a dollar of state unemployment benefits, um, you are
eligible to get this extra $600 a week.
Um, it's not pro-rated.
If you're eligible for a dollar, this is a $600 add-on that you get.
And, it doesn't matter whether you're participating through, um, you know,
the regular state unemployment or the new freelancer unemployment.
Um, that extra $600 add-on is there for you.
Um, you know...
In your state, look into it.
Um, I know in, in many states, it's now just an automatic add-on,
um, but make sure that, you know, if it is a separate application,
that you're applying for that, too.
Um, right now, this benefit is only available through the end of July.
Um, hopefully that will get extended, but it can do some interesting things
to folks who are, you know, looking at reduced hours and part-time
employment in terms of figuring out...
or, working with your employer about what's best for you because, you know,
there are some circumstances where because of this new $600 add-on, you
can actually do better, um, working...
I don't want to say "working less," although it depends on the
state, but working a little bit rather than total unemployment.
It's interesting the way it plays out.
All right.
So, you need that one dollar of state unemployment benefits to get the 600, and
ideally you'd like as much as you can get.
Uh, what do you need to do to be eligible?
Um, varies state by state.
I'm using New York as an example because the general...
the general, um, eligibility points remain the same, all right?
You have to have worked in a job that's covered by it for
a certain number of quarters.
Some states have...
you have to have earned a certain minimum amount.
Um, you have to have lost your job, um, or had a reduction in hours of your job
through no fault of your own, right?
So, um, you know...
If you are fired for cause, you're fired for violation of a rule or
policy, you're not going to be eligible.
You're also not eligible if you quit, although there are some circumstances
where, like I said, you're quitting for good reason like you're being forced to do
something illegal, um, that's different.
Like I said, I mean, this is New York.
Again, part-time, you're still eligible.
Many states part-time still eligible.
Um, you need to be available and looking for work.
Ready, willing, and able to work, um, in the state...
This is like...
I do want to make this point...
I'm not sure how this is playing out in the pandemic, but generally available
and looking for work in your state.
So, I have seen it happen pre-pandemic where people are
not actually in their state.
They're, say, on extended vacation in Europe, um, and they try to,
um, re-certify for benefits.
They've, they've been approved for benefits, they try to re-certify...
They actually know when you're using, um, an out-of-country I.P.
address, and you can get dinged for doing that.
You know, are they paying attention to that in a pandemic?
I don't actually know if somebody knows...
You know, please let me know, but something to be aware of because I
know lots of folks are sheltering outside of their regular state.
It doesn't mean you can't work remote.
So, hopefully that won't be an issue, but I just do want to flag it.
Um, all right.
So, are there any other changes these days, you know, in...
in the pandemic era to existing U.I.
law?
Some states, um, are waiving the traditional one-week waiting period.
Um, I mean, that's nice.
It's good.
I'm being told it doesn't make much of a different because so many states are so
backed up that people aren't getting their benefits for a long time anyway, but it...
but, but that is the right thing to do.
Um, all right.
State benefits.
The existing benefits in almost every state...
Benefits are...
The benefit levels and periods of time are the same.
They haven't changed.
What's changed is the CARES Act add-on that makes them available
for longer and gives you the extra.
So, giving you an idea...
I took a sampling of states here so you can see.
This is without the CARES Act add-ons.
Um, you can see that different states give you a different
maximum weekly benefit amount.
Now, not everyone's going to apply for the...
is going to be eligible for the max, remember.
You're going to...
You're going to have to report a certain number of quarters of earnings, and each
state's going to do their own calculation.
And, I think Shel circulated some information, um, to
direct you to different state department of labor websites.
You can easily find the department of labor website for your state, and they're
going to have a calculator where you can sit there with your 1099s or your...
you know, your W-2s and figure out what your eligibility's going to be.
But, here are...
For some...
some states, here are the maxes and the number of weeks.
So, you can see.
We can go anywhere from, you know, over 1200 a week in Massachusetts
to 275 a week in Florida.
Depending where you live, it can be a big, big difference.
Um, all right.
And then, this was the last and kind of interesting thing I wanted to go
over with folks is, um, you know...
How do the benefits interact, right?
Because if you can get partial benefits, um, or if you can get benefits for partial
work, um, and then you can sometimes get the $600 add-on, what does it look like
if you're working versus not working?
Um, now I, I've taken an example here of a hypothetical employee
who's earning $1150 a week.
Which again, might not be, you know...
It might not be the same, um....
But you...
Again, you could probably try this yourself, um, once you
figure out what your, your, your base, your base amount is.
But, I took...
I took this person with the hypothetical 1150 salary a week, um, through
the calculation of what would he or she earn if they worked full-time,
part-time, or did not work at all, um, in three different states.
Um, now each state has its own rule for how they deal with partial employment.
All right, so it's going to depend on your state.
Like I said, in...
In New York, what they do is if you're anything other than
full-time, they'll do it pro-rata.
Um, you know, in California, if you're making...
if you're working part-time but you are earning anything less
than the full benefit amount, they'll give you the remainder.
So, um, as...
But remember, as long as you're co- as long as you're eligible for one dollar of
the unemployment, you get the $600 add-on.
So you can see that, you know...
If you're looking at the three states, um, things are pretty much
the same for working five or...
or three days a week, because nobody's qualifying for unemployment at that rate.
Um, but things get really different and interesting when you get to two days
a week of employment because in New York, um, this particular hypothetical
employee is earning 460 a week.
Um, that is less than the unemployment minimum of 504, so she is still qualifying
for a small amount of unemployment which qualifies her to the full $600.
So, you can see, for two days a week in New York, she's making, uh, $1312.
In California, that 460 is more than the state, um, weekly minimum,
which is 450 in California.
So, she's not qualifying.
So, um, all she's getting is her partial wage.
Same in Florida.
Um, and you can continue to go from there.
Once we get to one day, everybody's qualifying for unemployment, but
the amount of benefits is different.
Um, so you...
You can see that it just...
That depending on your state and on, you know, the amount of work you're
getting from part-time, you can be looking at very different calculations.
And, I think this is just an interesting exercise to do, because when I work with
companies, I'm working with a number of them now that are trying to figure
out how to work with their employees in order to get them the most pay possible.
So, we've been doing a lot of looking at part-time schedules
that will enable people...
Because also, if you're working...
The more you're working, the more you're paying in and the longer your
eligibility's going to last, right?
Um, so, um...
To find peak...
To find ways to keep people paid the most for the longest period of time possible...
So, if you are working for a company like that, this might be the kind
of thing that you want to bring up with them because there could be some
creative ways to also use unemployment to keep people paid and working longer.
So, I think that is the end of what I have.
So, you guys...
You want me to stop the share now, right Shel?
Shel Perkins: Uh, if you could...
Wendy Stryker: Okay.
All right, great.
Shel Perkins: All right.
Wow.
You know, um, A.I.G.A.
has been doing a series of webinars that are related to the current
COVID situation, and I would have to say that some of the information
that you just covered is actually the, the most complicated.
So, in some of the earlier webinars, we've talked about the economic impact payments.
It's pretty straightforward, it's based on what your total taxable income was
last year, perhaps the year before.
Um, we've heard a lot about the S.B.A.
programs, the Paycheck Protection Program and the Economic Injury Disaster Lonas,
and there it's a paperwork process.
You apply, it gets processed, you're in a line with everybody
else, maybe you get the money.
If you do, it's a loan, and it has a term and there's a percentage rate of...
for interest, and maybe it'll be forgiven at some future date
if you meet certain criteria.
It's pretty straightforward.
But today, when we talk about unemployment, where's
the money coming from?
Well, there's federal money.
There's state money.
It's being administered by the states, and all of the states have their own systems.
And then, Congress and the CARES Act has added two or three layers
on top of that, so it's like, "wow."
Wendy Stryker: And, employers should know, too, that the...
You know, the, the extra CARES unemployment money is federal money.
So, that's not going to get charged against employers, so...
But that's something that they should know.
Shel Perkins: The other thing about the...
The other thing about the additional federal money is that
my understanding that it will...
It, it will expire.
Wendy Stryker: Yeah.
Shel Perkins: Yeah.
Wendy Stryker: Like two of the programs at the end of the year,
and one of them at the end of July.
Shel Perkins: Right.
We have been getting questions that are coming in from our participants.
And, some of them relate to what you were saying about, um, cuts to hours or salary.
And, you talked about employees being either exempt or non-exempt,
and, um, in most situations, you might be bumping up against some
applicable minimum wage for the state.
To me, I think some of the, the new information there was that
some states have minimum weekly salaries for exempt positions.
I think maybe some people are not aware of that.
Wendy Stryker: Yeah, well...
I mean, every state is going to...
Well, let me put it this way.
Most states have them, and if they don't have one, then it
reverts to the federal minimum.
Because, like again with the...
With employment law, that's why we're always going to be complicated,
because we've got federal, we've got state, and sometimes there's
even city laws that govern.
But, like I said, whichever one is most protective of the worker
is the one that governs, so...
Shel Perkins: Right.
Wendy Stryker: Some states have, um, exempt salary minimums.
For example, in, in...
And in New York, it's even more complicated than that because the minimums
vary depending on how big your employer is and what part of the state you're in...
Shel Perkins: Right.
Wendy Stryker: But, if you're in a state that doesn't have one, um,
you're going to revert to the federal.
Or, um, if your state does have one, states are not allowed to have a
minimum that's less than the federal.
Federal minimum right now is 684 a week.
Shel Perkins: Okay.
Well, let me read you a question here that kind of relates to this topic.
Wendy Stryker: Sure.
Shel Perkins: Um, if you are exempt and during your time as exempt the
salary basis minimum was raised above the salary that you're receiving...
Wendy Stryker: Yes.
Shel Perkins: Should your employer have changed you to non-exempt,
or are you grandfathered?
Wendy Stryker: Um, no.
You, um...
You automatically, then, become non-exempt, which means that
you're entitled to overtime.
Shel Perkins: Okay.
Wendy Stryker: Yeah.
Shel Perkins: Uh, here's another question.
I'm on salary in Texas.
I got my salary cut 20%, then 40%.
Um, I'm one of the probably 20% of people left at the company.
I'm still working full-time hours with only being paid 60% of my base salary.
Wendy Stryker: Mm-hmm [affirmative]
Shel Perkins: I informed H.R.
that my management...
I informed H.R.
and my management that I was pregnant before this happened.
Do I have any protection?
It seems I just have to be happy to have a job since my other
colleagues were furloughed.
Wendy Stryker: Yeah.
I mean, here's the thing about, about, about discrimination, right?
And, pregnancy is certainly one of the protected classes.
Um, employees can't be discriminated against with respect to what's
called terms and conditions of employment, which means everything.
It means whether you're fired, uh, raises, uh, how much you're paid.
Um, you cannot be discriminated against because of your protected class.
So, when it comes to this particular situation, you can't...
It would be discrimination to have your pay cut because you're pregnant,
but there is nothing that prevents your employer from cutting your
pay while you are pregnant if the reason they are doing it is for a
legitimate business reason, right?
So, if everybody else lost their job but you kept yours, um, it...
it seems unlikely...
Although, again, you know..
it never...
you never know, and I don't know all the facts and circumstances that the
pregnancy is beca- is the reason for the pay cut as opposed to, you know,
um, current economic crisis and, and whatever companies are doing.
Now, that being said, when I talk to companies and they're, they're
either cutting pay or they're laying people off, I tell them, "You've got
to be very careful, um, you know...
If you're laying off a group of five people...
Or, if you have 10 people in a job category and you're choosing to lay off
half of them, how are you selecting them?"
Right?
Um, now...
You know...
You can select the person who's pregnant, but you can't select them
because they're pregnant, and how is everybody supposed to know your reason?
So, it...
It's something to think about, to make sure that...
You're not required to, but it's helpful for everybody and useful to
prevent lawsuits, uh, if you make sure that the reasons you're using are,
you know, clear objective criteria.
Shel Perkins: Right.
In the information that you shared about layoffs, um, you had...
Your slides had really good information about, um, negotiating the terms of
your departure and signing releases.
Uh, variables that might come up in, in those final conversations.
Could you talk a little bit more about ownership of intellectual property?
If you've been working full time in an advertising agency or design
firm, and now you're being laid off, what rights do you have to show
completed projects in your portfolio?
Wendy Stryker: Okay.
Well, it's...
It's actually two...
It's two...
it's two different questions in some ways, all right?
So, if you're working as an employee, all right?
As opposed to a contractor, um, you know...
As an employee, you...
There is already this kind of concept of work-for-hire that anything that
you create, um, in the scope of your employment or using your employer's,
you know, time and materials belongs to the employer, and...
and it's theirs, right?
Um, you know...
If you're a contractor, that's not going to be the case.
Um, which is why contractor agreements usually have a written
work-for-hire clause that, as a matter of contract law, you agree.
Um, so it...
It belongs to the employer, the copyright belongs to the employer.
So, now it comes to, um, you know...
You want to use the material.
How are you going to use it?
You want to use it in your portfolio?
Um, you know...
Is that a copyright violation?
Um, you know, not necessarily, right?
Um, it...
it's certainly not, um...
maybe.
I don't know who's going to know about it, but I, I know that, um,
when I'm representing employers one of the things that we talk about is
we actually make sure that in the documentation it talks about portfolios.
Shel Perkins: Mm-hmm [affirmative]
Wendy Stryker: Right?
That it says, you know, um, without our permission, you're not supposed to use
this for any purpose including portfolios.
You know...
Why do they do that?
I mean, that...
Why do employers do that?
Two reasons, right?
One is sometimes, it's material that's actually owned by the
client, not by the company, and they're subject to their own law...
they have their own agreements that might put them in violation.
And, the other is the number of times people take the work they did while
they were at the employer, and then they go and they start their own
company and put it up on their website and say, "Look at the wonderful work
I did, my company's so wonderful."
Shel Perkins: Right.
Wendy Stryker: Um, yeah.
Shel Perkins: Well, portfolios for the most part are online now...
Wendy Stryker: Yeah.
Shel Perkins: So, it's...
It's quite likely that your past employer and those clients will become aware of it.
Wendy Stryker: Mm-hmm [affirmative]
Shel Perkins: And, even if you can claim that you have a fair use
right to show the finished work-
Wendy Stryker: Yeah.
Shel Perkins: -uh, the problem that they have with it might be that
there are trade secrets involved.
Uh, the...
the work might be featuring information that's not publicly
known and that they want to...
to protect.
Wendy Stryker: Well, right.
Either that...
That's absolutely correct, or that it's featuring work that the company is...
Like I said, it might...
It might be something that's owned by the client and not the company.
And they might...
the company might be subject to an agreement with their client that says,
"You're not going to put our logos up," or "You're not going to use our work outside
the scope of certain limited categories."
So, you could be very well be putting your company into contractual breech.
Shel Perkins: Right.
Wendy Stryker: Um, and you know...
Is it fair use?
You know, I think it depends, right?
I mean, if you're using...
the...
if it's an online portfolio that you're using to solicit more work, I
think it's going to be harder to...
It's going to be harder to argue fair use.
Shel Perkins: Right.
Within A.I.G.A., I think a lot of our membership, uh, does work,
um, as an independent contractor.
Wendy Stryker: Mm-hmm [affirmative]
Shel Perkins: We have a lot of freelancers.
Um, so we're part of the gig economy.
And, I wanted to ask you, from your perspective as a labor attorney...
Um, what are the current trends right now, um, updating employment
laws to reflect the fact that the gig economy is becoming dominant?
Wendy Stryker: Yeah, I mean, I...
I think that's a great question, and I think it's something that, you know,
that, that state employment laws have been struggling with, um, for a while
now, largely exacerbated by, by this pandemic, because we're realizing more and
more and more the complete lack of social safety net that exists for gig workers.
And, you know, some of the efforts that have already started...
I mean, you see, you see legal challenges to classification, right?
Are you properly classifying workers as independent contractors, because
there's a lot of industry tradition to call people contractors and
treat them that way when they're really not, um, that's been ignored.
So, I'd say over the past decade, you'd...
You started by seeing a little bit more government step-up in, in prosecuting
those kinds of things and in making people follow the existing rules.
And, you know, step two is you're seeing states start to change their
classification rules, like most recently in California that just put a...
a new law in place making...
completely changing their standard for who can be fairly classified
as a contractor, and it...
it really rules out, you know, most folks.
Shel Perkins: Got it.
Wendy Stryker: Um, that...
Shel Perkins: Yeah.
For years, the...
there are 20 common law factors that most people have used as a guide when...
when you're trying to determine the status of someone either as employee
or an outside contractor, but now the state of California has simplified
that to just three factors, the A.B.C.
test.
Wendy Stryker: Right.
Shel Perkins: Do you think that that, um, is that going to be a precedent
that other states will follow?
Wendy Stryker: Well, I mean...
I think we've got to start by saying that there are at least 14
states that already had the A.B.C.
test.
Shel Perkins: Oh, wow.
Wendy Stryker: Um, yeah.
I mean, at least 14.
It might be...
It might be more.
The A.B.C.
test is out there whether folks are, you know...
Whether those are states that are enforcing it, I don't know.
And, perhaps there're states that don't have, um, you know, the industries
like we have in New York and California that are, you know, predominat- the
created industries that are, you know, probably predominately freelancer-
Shel Perkins: Right.
Wendy Stryker: -and that historically have been freelancer.
Um, so I think that's why we're seeing, um, problems in California, um, where
there was I think a lot of misuse, um...
Again, because a lot of the, the tech gig economy was also in California.
Shel Perkins: Yes.
Wendy Stryker: And California passed its law very, very quickly, so I think
that right now they're continuing to have lawsuits to kind of iron out...
I mean, they, they do have this very simple three-factor test, but
they also have pages and pages and pages of complicated exemptions.
Shel Perkins: Yeah.
Wendy Stryker: But, immediately after the California law passed, you saw
Governor Cuomo in New York step up and say, "We're not going to lag behind
California in anything," and to New York legislators immediately put,
you know, the three part test on...
You know, into proposed legislation, and New York was working on whether
they were going to do something similar.
Although, like I said, I'm sure that they're distracted now, and
I'm not expecting that one to happen any time in the near future.
But, I think that you are going to see more and more.
And, there's been some, um, litigation victories lately.
Um, in terms-
Shel Perkins: Just as background information on this, we've put a
couple of links in the chat pod, um, so if people follow those
links they can get more information about the recent California law.
Uh, some people call it the Gig Economy Law.
Um, and then there's a...
an article from the Washington Post about how some of the large tech
companies are challenging it, so...
Wendy Stryker: Mm-hmm [affirmative]
Shel Perkins: We'll see how that all plays out.
Wendy Stryker: Mm-hmm [affirmative]
Shel Perkins: Unfortunately, it looks like we've come to the end of our schedule
for today, which is really a shame because this is such a fascinating topic.
There are so many aspects to it, and you, you are such an unbelievable guide.
Your professional experience is just so valuable to A.I.G.A.
membership right now, so thank you so much for being so generous
with your time and your expertise.
And, I just wanted to remind the people who are participating
that this is part of a series of COVID-related webinars that A.I.G.A.
has been putting on, and they are all member-supported, so that is
to say that they were all made possible by the members of A.I.G.A.
So, with that, I think we should let people go.
Thanks to everyone.
Wendy Stryker: Okay.
Thanks for having me, and have a good weekend, everybody.
Bye-bye.