-: Welcome to AIGA's Fireside Chat.
Thank you for joining us.
Please connect with us and share your thoughts.
Hashtags for this Fireside
are AIGADesign and FutureDesign.
Now, it is my pleasure to welcome Bennie F. Johnson,
AIGA's Executive Director
and today's guest, Alex Center, Founder of CENTER.
Bennie.
-: Thank you, Amy.
And welcome everyone to our December Fireside Chats.
So we thought that it would be really dynamic this year
to close out the year with Fireside Chats
that looked at leadership in design.
And to bring together some of the most innovative,
creative and fun voices in design
to sit down and have chats this month.
So I can't think of a better person to start off
than a dear friend, the incredible, the awesome Alex Center.
He's a brand builder, award winning designer.
He's won awards both inside, outside, and outside again,
in terms of design in leadership.
He runs the studio aptly named Center based in Brooklyn
where he's worked on award-winning campaigns
for innovative companies.
One at the heart of Center is the notion
of working with startups and turning them into icons
and working with icons and teaching them how to behave
and perform like a startup.
It's not only as an entrepreneur and as an agency
that Alex has shined.
It's also in his role working in-house
where he's been a leader in thinking and rethinking
about the way in-house design works.
He spent 10 years working directly for Coca-Cola,
where he began as the design director
for very own Vitamin Water, SmartWater and Power Eight.
He's worked with multiple iconic brands across the globe
and has given talks on the power of design
and the power of packaging innovation
in building the next generation of iconic brands.
So it is without further ado that I introduce us all
for this Fireside Chat to Brooklyn own Alex Center.
-: Bennie, how are you?
-: Hey man, I am so good this morning.
It is a pleasure like I said,
to close out our leadership series
with you this morning my friend.
-: Thank you so much for having me.
I'm thrilled. Fireside let's warm it up.
-: Let's jump right in.
And so bad puns are gonna be profound
throughout this today.
So we're gonna start not at the beginning,
not at the end.
We're gonna start right here in the center for you.
-: A Pun is like pizza, Bennie.
There are no such thing as bad.
They're all good.
-: Nice. Well, I'm gonna ask you this question,
but take you to this moment.
And this is your post-game interview question.
Earlier this year,
a brand that you worked with from the beginning
had the distinct honor of winning not one
but I believe two Lions Awards.
How did you feel the moment that a brand
that you had started off with from its inception
is there winning the Lion?
-: Thank you for that question because unfortunately,
because the award ceremony was livestream,
I'd never had a chance to like give an acceptance speech.
Like-
-: Well, here you go.
-: So here I am.
And so I just want to say thank you to the man above
and I honestly, I should have a speech.
I should've had a speech prepared,
but the truth is when I think about that project.
And I think about that brand and that the work that we did
that won that award, it is the most true representation
of teamwork, collaboration and the idea
that anything great is made
by great people working together
and doing things that they want
to exist in the world, right?
I think that was sort of from the very beginning
of that project was instilled
in sort of like, "We wanna do something different,
we wanna take a chance, we wanna make something special,
we wanna make something meaningful
and we have a small group of people here that can do that."
And so I think about that Lion
or I think about the Lions
and many of the awards that we worked for that project
as like just a symbol of the work, the collaboration,
the teamwork, and how much...
For me it was something about the people
that worked on that project for the most part
were people that were just at the beginning
of their journey as designers, creators.
And for me I've been doing this for 15 years.
And so there's a part of me that wants to say
like, "I did it, I made it."
This is success for me.
But to be honest, I really genuinely felt like
that project was about putting other people,
putting a young Pete Freeman who was like my...
My intern and then it's not like my lead designer
in my company.
And he's like first real project in the world.
And our copywriter or cannon
who was not a copywriter a year or two ago,
and sort of like found his voice in writing
and giving brands a voice.
And now he's an award-winning copywriter.
I can lie in a winning copywriter.
So I often think of myself as a coach in a way,
I love sport metaphors.
And so I'm really that project
and those awards I'm so thankful
that I created an environment, created a company,
created a relationship with the client to give
that award winning designer,
award-winning writer to people on my team
who are just at the beginning of their journey.
And they might not recognize it now
but it could change their life.
And it gives them the belief in themselves
that they can do this at the highest level.
And that to me is the coolest part about any award at all.
-: It really is in somewhat of a visual halo effect.
I'd be remiss if I didn't call out the cans above your head.
-: Yeah, they're sitting behind me just in case I need
to just kind of pull them down
and you just start rubbing them
or cleaning them in a meeting.
But yes, no, I think awards are for designers,
I think a lot of people used to care a lot about awards
and awards really meant something.
And I think the younger generation
maybe doesn't think of them in that same way,
but I just think of it as sort of like a celebration
of the hard work and of the process
and all the things that made the brand what it is.
And I think when all of that works
and when all that is kind of coming together
that's what's possible.
-: It really is.
So we're gonna ladder up literally one more level
to the top of your book sale for those who aren't familiar
with the actual brand.
You have the-
-: Yeah that's the United sodas of America.
And honestly, that is...
when I left Coke and started my own studio,
I always felt like I wanted to build brands from nothing
from really kind of the beginning
and really kind of be a part of the early ideation
and creation and even formulation of products and brands
and working with startups allowed me to sort of do that.
And some of that was because I had been working in-house
for so long that I really...
I love being a part of all of it.
I really like being kind of behind the scenes
and sort of kind of executive producer in a way, right?
-: Right.
-: A project and putting all the pieces in place.
And so when I was on...
when I left Coke and I started my own studio
I was really and I really wanted
to have some of those brands that we created
and sort of felt like we owned
and something that was like an expression of our studio
and the fact that we wanna make great things
that people love,
we want to build brands with heart and soul
and we want to do things that are (indistinct)
And so United sodas is really, I always,
I pointed it out as our...
It's the most pure expression of what I'm want Center
to be, which is a place where people love to work
and we do wonderful things.
And when we do everything right,
and we get all the pieces right.
And we have that great relationship
and collaboration and we kind of can do anything
and so it is... Yeah.
It's the thing that I think.
A lot of people know us for it now.
It's bizarre and cool
that I'm no longer the guy Mr. Coca-Cola
or the guy from Vitamin Water
I'm now...
Some people are just like,
"Yeah, he's the guy that did the United Sodas of America."
And that's surreal and incredibly thrilling for me.
-: So talk a bit, I always love our conversations
how intentional you are about the clients you work with,
the work you do and kind of this phasing in your career,
but about 10 years ago,
you were really steeped in in-house design
and helping to champion in-house.
How was it for you making the transition
from really being a champion of in-house design
to now having your own show?
-: Yeah.
Yeah. I'm still a champion tree in-house design.
I don't think like just because I laughed
or extremely I haven't another sort of chapter
in my career that I had left behind.
-: Great.
-: In-house cause I think in-house,
whenever I talked at AIGA conferences
and I did a lot of sort of conference talks
about in-house and my role in house
and as sort of the AIGA was starting
to sort of celebrate in house designers a bit more.
I was definitely sort of at the forefront waving flag.
And I always would say like,
"In-house is a sort of mentality."
It's a perspective about sort of being an owner
or feeling like it's yours
and feeling like you're more than just an employee.
You're a part of it.
And so you need to take that sort of ownership,
but also to take chances and to push things forward
and to really kind of feel like you're more
than just a cognitive machine.
Your role is to really to live the brand
and to act like an owner
and to celebrate it like it's yours.
And a lot of that experience that I had in house,
I think really taught me sort of
the role of design in business
and sort of seeing like
what it was like when a design studio
would present work to a client
and then the studio will leap
and what the client would then say,
they'd be like, "Okay, cool.
Number two is good, but three is no way."
And we need to push them
and we need to really get across this idea
of what the product does
or what don't you know.
All these kinds of conversations
about how design was actually implemented
and actually deployed
to help grow the business inside.
And so that way and being a part of that
and having a seat at the table
and just kind of being a sponge
for a lot of my career,
inside of Coca-Cola really kind of gave me a perspective
that when I decided to go
to the other side of the table, right?
Often try to make it feel,
and I genuinely want to feel like I'm sitting
on their side of the table.
Just because I'm hired
and because we are not a part of the company,
it doesn't mean
that the relationship should be client and agency brand.
It should be like we are doing something together.
And sort of center principles of like,
what our studio is.
We don't work for people, We work with people.
And it's as simple as that.
And I think the best relationships
that we've had have resulted in the best work
and it's kind of that's on the center side
and that's also on the cook side.
I remember working with Widen Kennedy
and some really wonderful shops
and advertising and design and Collins
and all these great people.
And the best work came from the best relationships
with those outside parties.
And when it felt like we were all doing something together,
that's when things really clicked
and that's when magic was made.
And so that's the approach I bring to Center.
And I've often talked about it as an in-house perspective
where it's like we're brand owners as well.
Every brand that we've worked with
United Sodas and cane in-house
and everything good light and all these brands
that we've been a part of.
I feel like they're mine.
I feel like I'm...
And I think our whole team feels like we want them to win.
We want them to succeed.
We want...
We care about everything.
And from the email newsletters to the social posts,
to the packaging, to the events, to the stores,
all of it matters to us because we genuinely care
like we are a part of it.
And that's because we are
and we have that sort of perspective.
And I do think it comes from
that experience I had working inside
of the business I think.
-: And I think it's really powerful
like you're saying that having that common purpose
and the common objectives we're thinking
about is where the best work comes from.
When everybody's coming in together,
how many times we've seen where an agency
or creative group has a different idea and approach,
and it's at odds with the business.
Alex: Yeah, you're correct.
-: And then we're surprised
when things don't work out well, right?
When we think about why are we all kind of coming together?
What are the objectives for us to do something big?
-: Yeah. I would always say Coke like
you're an expert in your thing
and everyone's an expert in their thing,
but we're an expert in Coca-Cola,
and we're an expert in Vitamin Water.
We understand the business and the brand
because we built it and we're also inside of it.
And so I think the best creative partners are ones
that are willing to sort of check their ego
at the door and say,
"What are we trying to solve here?
What's the objectives? What are our goals?
And how are we gonna achieve those things?"
And that's how great things happen.
It's not just by sort of walking in
and being like, "I'm a genius.
Let me go do my genius thing."
And just kind of (indistinct)
Saying, "Get out of my way, you hired me."
And it's like, "No, we're doing this together."
And I do think it is all part of what design is.
It's a collaborative sport. I honestly believe that.
-: So I'll take you back a bit.
We talked about that feeling of winning the award,
but when was the moment
that you first felt you were a designer?
-: Hoo, great question.
I think when I...
Yeah, I was always a kid that grew up
with a lot of different hobbies.
And I was always pretty bad at a lot of things.
I was into music,
but I played the drums poorly
and I was into sports,
but I played basketball and I'm cross pretty pretty poorly.
And I didn't have any great talents or skills,
but as an artist and as someone that could draw and paint
and that was the place that I felt comfortable.
That's the place that I felt confident.
And that was the thing that I kind of drove me
to pursue this creative career.
And so I don't think I felt like a designer
until I started making things for other people.
So I had a buddy who was in a band
and I was actually in his band in high school.
And then he replaced me with a far better drummer
-: A better drummer.
-: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And now he's a Grammy award-winning songwriter
and does a lot of incredible songwriting,
shout out to my friend Scott.
And so when I was designing his MySpace page
or his flyers for his shows
or his album covers,
I think that's when I started to feel like,
"I'm a designer. This is what I do.
This is what I make."
And it had nothing to do with money.
I think both of us look back at that time
and I'm like, "Ooh, that design is (clears throat).
I don't wanna show it to anyone."
And he's like, "That music I don't want to share that
with anyone."
-: Right.
-: And I think it's a Testament to sort of like
you gotta pay your dues and make a lot of bad shit
and just kinda like you just gotta create.
And I think you learn over time.
And I always say like,
"You learn how to be a designer by being a designer."
And I think it's not until...
This idea of making stuff and making bad stuff
and learning how to make better stuff
and sitting in meetings and working with clients.
And I think for my whole 20s,
that's what I did.
Oh. It was just like designing for brands
and going to meetings
and working with amazing people and just kind of learning.
-: So what was the biggest shock for you coming from...
-: (Indistinct)
So you started working with,
you were creating the brand,
you were the design voice for the Vitamin Water brand,
and then you guys are acquired by Coca-Cola.
-: Yeah.
-: But talk a bit about that experience
of having a brand voice in a space
that you really are kind of in your own universe
and then becoming a part of the larger Coke
metaverse of brand and experience
-: Yeah. I guess, Coke is its own metaverse in a way.
I tell myself I don't know what that means,
but it was surreal.
I think for me I was quite young when it happened.
Looking back on it I was still just a kid
and I was thrilled and excited about the opportunity.
I was both scared that I was gonna like my job
that I loved working for Vitamin Water
and this last sort of startup culture
and this sort of amazing group of people
was gonna somehow start to change.
And that did happen over the course
of the next like five years or so.
And so I was definitely scared and nervous
and kind of sad about sort of
that chapter being over.
But I was thrilled about the opportunity
to work inside of a company that really
has an incredible design history.
You're talking about the AIGA archives
before this chat and Coca-Cola archives
or something else, right?
-: Right.
And there's this history and there's this legacy
of this brand and all the brands that sort of embody
and sort of that are underneath
the Coca-Cola company umbrella.
And so the opportunity for me
as someone who loves brands, right?
I grew up idolizing Polo and Tommy Hilfiger and Nautica.
And all these like '90s brands
that I would wear with pride on my chest.
And Coca Cola was like the affinity that people have
for Coca-Cola is almost unmatched.
There are a few brands that people...
Like you could go to a store,
you can go to Urban Outfitters
and buy a shirt that just has Coca-Cola on the front
that in it's fashion.
And so to be able to work for a company
and a legacy and a brand
that obviously got to the top of the mountain
in terms of we're talking about like icons.
Coca-Cola is the number one icon certainly in beverage.
And you can argue in overall, right?
And apple or whatever a couple of brands here and there,
but to be able to be inside of that and to learn
and again, soak it up like a sponge
and kind of take in some of the things
that were happening at the time
2006, 2007, 2008, Coca-Cola they had just launched
that sort of new brand system with Turner Duckworth.
They were like the Cane award winning brand of the year.
And so they were doing some really remarkable work
and they had this idea about sort of systems
and this mass intimacy
and a sort of way of creating these design worlds
that could be extended
and could be sort of realized in different ways.
And it was incredibly inspiring for me as a designer
to sort of be able to kind of get a key
to the castle in a way,
and to sort of just be again, soaking it up
and learning and seeing
how the world's greatest brand is run and operated
and managed and designed.
-: And you spent 10 years there
and now you're full.
You kind of brought in all of this space in here
and it's time to take on the brave, bold world.
-: Yeah.
-: How long did it take you to start Center?
-: Yeah, so I left Coke September 1st, 2017
and I started officially all right.
I launched Center in April of 2018.
And so those couple of months between
sort of leaving and starting was basically just me sitting
at a computer kind of dreaming
and really kind of doing some soul searching
and really kind of trying
to figure out what I wanted to do
and what I wanted Center to be.
It's obviously a dream of mine to have my own studio
and what I wanted the work to be like
and what I wanted the company to be like,
and sort of one of my dreams and aspirations were
and I think it happened quickly where
and where all of a sudden I felt quite lonely
actually quite like I had worked for this company
and I had all this sort of family,
really friends and people that I was working alongside
and people that I could go in and say,
"Hey, did you watch game of Thrones?
What did you think of last night?"
So then like a lot of work and working
with other people is his relationships
and not just about design, right?
It's about being human and people and all that.
And so when I left Coke, I was pretty sad
and pretty lonely and was definitely kind of by myself.
And I think the number one thing I wanted to do
with Center was to build back that family,
that culture, that feeling of like
a great group of people that love what they do
and sort of take the bill brands
and do it with sort of heart and soul
and passion.
And to really kind of think about the company
from a people first perfected
and trying to find the right people,
the right projects, the right collaborators
and the right things to sort of get this thing to exist.
And now we're about to enter our fifth year
and this was our biggest year yet.
We have 10 people on staff,
which is surreal and really amazing.
And yeah, but it's been kind of like
it's been a slow and steady build towards
where we are today.
And I was definitely scared and nervous
like anyone sort of taking a chance
and betting on themselves.
And I think it definitely took a lot of courage,
but I always share on my wife here
when I talk about this part of this story,
because my wife gets a lot of credit,
but not just because she supports me and loves me,
but also because she had her own business
that she launched in 2015.
-: Right.
-: And she kind of bet on herself
and took a chance and sort of brought this idea
of a modern shower cap into the world.
And has had a ton of success with it.
And shameless plug you should buy one
for your family members for the holidays
available now at showercap.com.
It's three Hs.
But she had just kind of...
I watched her do something extraordinary
which was take something from nothing
and build it and find the right people
and the right partners and the right collaborators
and the right...
And pull the plug and jump from the plane.
And so when I was thinking about doing the same,
it felt possible I think
and I think it felt like I could do it too,
not just because of the experience I had from Coke
but also because I had just watched someone
basically do something and be there,
jump into entrepreneurship
and jump into sort of building something.
And yeah, it gave me the courage I think to do it.
And then I just had to figure out
how to do it my way or the way that made sense for Center.
And it was incredibly...
It was a scary time
but I think it was...
I'm a guy that often thinks
about sort of like I'm a Libra
so I don't really know exactly...
You're a Libra too. There you go.
-: Yes, (indistinct)
-: And you're also wrapped in
so the little lane says, "Way things on my Libra scale."
And so that means I tend to like overthink things
or try to sort of weigh things in my head.
And I think about leaving Coke and starting center.
And I have zero regrets.
I genuinely am so thrilled and I sort of
that I took this chance
because I'm having the most fun I've ever had.
And I'm just the happiest in my work
and the happiest with what we've been able to build.
And that's just to anyone out there
that's listening
and it's like I am scared or nervous.
I want to take a chance.
It's like you gotta give it,
you gotta try it because it's worth it
and you'll never do it if you don't take that chance.
-: Yeah. My brother, this was the story
that I wanted to share with everyone on a Fireside.
When we remember we first talked
about betting on yourself.
-: Yeah.
-: And having a space in there.
And what we've seen the research we did this past year
of our design POV,
we were blown away by roughly 80% of designers
will start their own enterprise
in some way shape or form.
And so the question is not
whether designers will be entrepreneurial
at a point in time.
It's just how we're able to show up.
Do we have the support?
Do we have the story journeys? Right?
Because I know entrepreneurial,
sometimes it can be scary being
by yourself if you don't understand,
that's a message necessary, that's a part of the journey
that-
-: Yeah. And I think that that part of the journey
was important and necessary
and sort of like soul searching for me.
But also, I don't think I felt "Successful."
Or I feel like I had sort of done it
until there was a group of people around me
that I was like, "This is my team."
We're gonna the game together.
And it's not just me and sort of my crew.
It's like we're all sort of doing this thing together.
And it's about the culture
and it's about the sort of camaraderie
and it's about the collaboration.
And my goal always is with clients,
hire us or people,
we work with people and they say,
"Alex, it was so wonderful working with you
and your team's incredible."
And they say like,
"We loved working with you guys
cause you understood us.
You collaborated well, you did great work.
And also it was enjoyable.
We had a great time doing it together."
And again, that's not just me.
I set the standard to what that looks like
to a certain extent,
but I'm the most proud I am as honestly,
when I can just kind of sit back
and let my team and let people step up
and lead and sort of just kind of represent the company
in a way that I would be proud of.
And it's the most rewarding part
of all this is to have that now start to happen.
-: But we know it's interesting
like you can sense
and feel the pride of being the leader
that comes out in your voice when you talk about your team.
And one of the things we've been thinking
about is the notion of leadership in our new world
and the mentoring the next generation
of designers and design led business folks.
And what are some of the things
that you've taken as lessons that you've applied.
I know you started off talking
about your intern growing up and being a VP of the team.
-: Yeah. I think it's really interesting.
There's been a lot of writing
and sort of conversation around
sort of how to manage a new generation of people, right?
And I think Gen Z and young millennials,
they see the world in a very different way
than how my generation
and sort of older generations saw it.
And I think it takes a different type of leadership style.
And I often talk about Mike Tomlin
who's a couple of years.
And I talk about the difference
between Mike Tomlin and Bill Belicheck.
And I think I'm a Mike Tomlin type leader
which is like I'm not better than anybody.
I'm not telling you what to do.
I'm here to support you. I'm here to guide you.
I'm here to empower you. I'm here to inspire you.
And I'm here to build a system
that allows you to do the best work of your career.
And that is the way I see it.
And I do think that younger people are not inspired
by people, maybe just being like,
"Do your job."
And sort of that sort of old school
a little bit more sort of like
authoritative type of leadership.
And I think about that quite a bit
where it's like my team is quite young.
It's a lot of people that are sort of
at the very beginning of their journey.
And there are people that are kind of...
Yeah. Some of them born in like 2000
and I make jokes about Billy Madison
or some Adam Sandler Ruby
And they're just I'm reminded every now and then
that (indistinct).
-: Where they shame you for your love of Adam Sandler.
-: They just don't understand
that Adam Sandler was once a very cool guy.
And now it's funny
because Adam Sandler's cool again, right?
-: Right.
-: It's because he's come out the other side,
but I think it's really interesting
that everything I try to instill in them
sort of the principles of how to do this thing.
And it's not just about the work,
it's about people,
it's about how to be the best leaders
and it's how to be the best humans.
And it's how to care and lead
with sort of passion
and how to lead with sort of that perspective
that this is a privilege to do what we do.
And we're thankful.
And we come with sort of the right attitude
and everything about design is constantly changing, right?
-: Right.
-: We are working in a path and in an industry
that just it won't be the same tomorrow as it was today.
And it's constantly evolving.
And you do have to be nimble.
You have to be willing
and sort of okay with the fact that it's gonna change.
It's not the same procedure.
We're not performing the same surgery
on every patient.
It's like the world's changing, our brands are.
The relationship that people have
with brands also changing.
The people we're working with are different
for every type on every project.
And so I just instill into my team
that you have to bring the right attitude.
It's attitude over skills is sort of the mantra.
And that was instilled by some of my first bosses
when I worked at Vitamin Water back in the day
and the guy whose quote that is,
he just sold his second business to Coke for $8 billion.
He sold his first one to Coke for $4 billion,
which was Vitamin Water.
And the second one to Coke
which is body armor for $8 billion.
Like (indistinct) is this like this guy I worked with
and he was a leader that he was the pride
of St John's University.
And he got a 2.5 GPA and he would say like,
"Attitude over skills."
I don't care if you went to Harvard.
I don't care if you're the most talented person.
We are all here to do this job together.
And when you build that kind of culture
and it's sort of like it's a one team,
one dream type feeling
it gets the most out of people
and it gets people to wanna charge the hill together.
And that's kind of been the way I've always thought
about design.
It's just like we're all doing this together
and you have to be able to sort of collaborate well
and to be nimble.
And to be the only thing that's constant is change
and working with other people.
And I try to kind of be in my common way,
it's like I'm trying to teach people how to be designers
and world-class leaders,
but it's really about being the best people,
I guess, at the end of the day.
And that is what has been my secret superpower.
It's just like is I care a lot.
And I genuinely love what I do. I'm a fan first.
And I genuinely bring that to every project.
And I think if I can build the next generation of designers
that have that philosophy and have that mentality
and come to design with that approach,
I think that's my kind of...
That's I wanna instill in them.
-: But what's incredible.
And I always love our conversations.
The incredible energy and gravity
that you bring things in.
People wanna be a part of what you're doing.
They wanna be a part of (indistinct).
So as I can see like the startups that you work with,
people gravitate towards you and your team
and the legacy brands.
I wonder, have you ever had moments
in which that gravity pulled in potential clients
that weren't a good fit?
That they saw your magic, right?
And so your superpowers as in.
(Ale clears throat).
-: They needed some Ameren
but you could tell from the beginning
it wasn't a good fit.
-: Hey, listen.
I'm not gonna sit here
and say every project we've ever done
has been a perfect relationship
and a perfect sort of collaboration.
And the result is again, like so much of
what we do is part of a team,
it's part of...
There are two sides of it
and there's multiple voices
and I'm never the one that's like,
"This is my voice. This is what it should be.
This is what it needs to be."
And I think of like, "We're here too."
I think of myself or I realized about myself.
Some of the people I look up to are
sort of like a behind the scenes.
people like Rick Rubin,
a (indistinct) producer that has worked
with all these incredible artists
and has Shangri-La Studios.
And it's this collaborative amazing environment
where people go to make their masterpieces and their work.
And I think of ourselves like that
where we're the producers, right?
Bennie: Right
-: Of all their people's dreams, right?
Of other people's ideas,
whether it's a non-alcoholic beverage company
or a furniture company
or a snack food company or whatever it is.
And so we're there to bring their dream to life,
we're the stewards of their vision and their ideas.
And at the end of the day sometimes their vision
and our vision isn't 100% aligned,
but at the end of the day it's their movie,
it's their album.
And we're here to help them.
And sometimes listen.
If they see it one way and we see another way
like we're here to give our perspective
and we're here to give our...
We're trying to push them towards
what we think is right.
But I'm never gonna go over the top
and be like, "You're wrong. You need to listen to me.
This is how it should be done."
And so I think sometimes that leads to work.
That maybe is not the thing
that you put up on your shelf
and scream from the rooftops,
but it's important work, nonetheless.
And I don't think that like no,
and not all the design studios
that we all look up to and all the work
that we see from those people,
you have to remember that is 10%
of the work that they do, right?
-: Right.
-: And I think people forget that.
They just see all the greatest hits from pentagram
and they see all the greatest hits from conferences,
all the greatest hits.
And they just see all the work that they pump out
and they're, "Oh my God, this is unbelievable,
incredible, best in the world staff."
And it is, but it's only a sliver
of like the work that they do as a company.
And it's the best for work that they do.
And it's the stuff that we all try to strive to create
this is the best work, the work that we wear with pride.
But yeah, not every project turns out that way
and that's okay too.
-: And to the point not every project that's award winning is
the only project we're not even,
I think of it as a business owner,
there's work that I do that's pushing the brand,
that's creating value.
That's delivering against its core objective
that may never win an award.
-: Yeah.
-: And may never be seen in that
but it's doing the most, right?
It's doing the work that it needs to do.
-: Exactly. And I think that's like...
A lot of times I think if designers designed
for other designers.
And I think that's something
that we all fall a little bit into the trap of
and I genuinely think we're designing
for people at the largest scale
at the largest volume of humans.
And not every human loves cool, messed
fucked up sort of like typography
like the Brooklyn coffee shop down the street does, right?
There are brands that are sort of more
that you can bring some of those new ideas
and they're no less important,
but they're maybe not the thing
that you're sort of like again,
you're gonna go and scream from the rooftops.
-: And in that moment it may not be
that the focus of the award or the group,
but it doesn't mean that it's not valuable
or our conversation today,
looking back in that rear view mirror
and realizing how important some moves were
that weren't at the top of awards
weren't on top of people's minds,
but were really important in moving us forward,
moving projects forward, moving ideas forward.
-: Yeah. To work I always start from this perspective,
which is like I'm incredibly fortunate
to do this job for a living, right?
Because the thing that I absolutely love
and it's something that I want to do independent
of the financial support.
And I genuinely come from that perspective,
which is privilege and it is,
and I genuinely think right like
to work with some of my favorite brands
and to work with any brand really it's something
that I'm thankful for.
And so I come from that perspective of like
I'm gonna try to do the best that we can do.
I'm gonna try to treat this with everything
I'm gonna give it everything I got
and I'm not gonna overlook it
if it doesn't turn out exactly the way
that I wanted it to,
because at the end of the day
it's helping me do this thing
and be a creative person for a living.
I've been doing this for 15 years
and I want to do it for the rest of my life.
And so I'm smart enough to recognize
that I'm lucky and I'm thankful for that.
And so I approach it in a way that's not like,
"Oh God, another beverage project."
Or another, "Oh God."
Sort of this isn't fun.
Everything has a purpose.
And I think for me the things
that I get to make and put into the world not
because I genuinely love to make.
And I love to sort of make things with other people.
And I love to make things that bring people joy
and make people happy.
And I think a lot of designers,
I think we all come from that place of like
wanting to have an impact
and wanting to share and wanting to give other people joy.
And I think that doesn't always win awards, right?
When I was at Coke
and I was doing all this work for Vitamin and water
we barely won any awards at all.
But if you go back and you think
about the 2000s and you think about Vitamin Water
and 50 cent, we were the first beverage
that was water plus something.
Go to your local grocery store,
go to Erewhon, go to (indistinct)
and look at how many beverages are on the shelf
in terms of-
-: In the entire category.
-: It is a massive influence.
And it's like put it in the MoMA
like the fucking rain.
Give me a water design it is that iconic and important.
Did it win a can line? Did it win any awards?
No, it didn't.
And so I don't think that should be the goal.
The goal should be to make things
that we love and that the most amount of people laugh.
And I think that's what we do.
And that's the thing that I love doing.
-: I'm a share your expression completely
cause you really summed it up
before I could even ask the question.
Is the joy and pride of putting
on the Jersey every day?
-: That's one thing, right?
I'm a guy I don't play professional sports,
but you gotta feel like if you're a professional athlete
and on Sunday you put on the Jersey like you made it
and you're in it.
And whether that team goes out there for pins or loses,
you're a professional athlete playing
at the highest level.
And that's why for me I care a lot
about merch and we make a lot of sweatshirts.
When I hire people full time,
I give them a Letterman Jacket.
And that was tradition
that my mom gave me a Letterman jacket
when I started the company.
And so I give that to people
when I offer them a position at the company.
And while those people are people
that have interned here before
and people that have sort of been a part
of this before that moment
or and so I think obviously it's a metaphor for,
"Yeah. We're doing this for profession, for our job."
And that is to work and build brands
and do things that people love.
And that alone is like you have to love that.
You have to love the process,
you have to love the making. You have to love the meetings.
You have to love round three of naming
when it's like...
You know what I mean? When it's like...
Because I think a lot of people are striving for success.
And I think I've been talking about success
for like the last five to 10 years.
Ever since I started doing keynote talks.
And I always felt like it was something I desired,
but never could achieve, right?
It was always like a door that was locked.
And if I could just do one more thing,
then I would get it.
And every time I unlock the door,
it got to another level in my career.
It never felt good enough, right?
And I was always sort of chasing that thing
which was I wanted to feel like a successful designer.
And I think a lot of people feel this way, right?
They want to feel that it doesn't...
They're waiting for someone else to anoint them
as a sort of like as successful
or to be sort of like you've done good.
And you've made it in a way.
And I think through creating Center
and starting my own business
and really kind of like getting to that level
where to your point earlier, right?
Holding the trophies and sort of feeling like,
"I've won."
But even that for me didn't like
no one put on the successful graphic design hat
and gave you the t-shirt and there was no parade or ed.
And I think like I had to realize was
that the doing it, the process, the journey,
the making, just being a professional designer
that people that gets to do this thing every day is success.
And that has to come from inside
and you have to be comfortable.
And it comes from security and a confidence of like,
"I'm doing what I love and that's enough."
That's enough. You know what I mean?
It's enough to just...
From that perspective, I was successful
in 10 years ago.
Bennie: Right.
-: When I was just a designer that had a paycheck
that was working on a brand that he loved
and was having fun.
And so I think if that's like you have
to set your own sort of success metrics.
You have to set it for yourself
and find that thing.
And ironically for me, it took until I had my own studio
with this team of people actually
sort of feel like I found what I've been looking for
which if we want to get incredibly cheesy,
it's like finding my center, right?
Finding that sort of thing, that is who I am,
which is a person who loves to do this
and gets to do it every single day.
And so for me it's incredibly freeing.
And I think it's been a journey.
-: Well, I'm gonna ask you to look around the corner
for a second thing.
-: Yeah.
-: And we talked about what you're grateful for
as we move into 2021, but what are you most excited
about for 2022?
-: Yeah. I think the world is changing
at a pretty fast clip here.
I think obviously the last couple of years
have been incredibly challenging and incredibly...
I don't think anyone they thought
that at any point five years ago
that we would be...
Even this meeting right now,
a Fireside Chat over Zoom with people watching
and we're living in a very different world
than we were living five years ago.
And I think that's really exciting.
And really, as they're talking about before,
change is always gonna happen in the relationship
that people have with the products and businesses
and brands ultimately like that's constantly evolving.
And I do think it feels like right before Facebook,
Twitter, Instagram, and social media changed the way
that we live our lives like in 2007 and 2006, right?
Right before that big switch.
And I do think that's coming.
I do think we're like right before Eden
NFTs and crypto and the metaverse and like all those things
that are coming today, December 8th, 2021,
I'm not gonna sit here
and tell you I have a clear understanding
of what those things are,
because I do not and I will not pretend to.
But I do understand that the way in the way
in which people interact with brands and the products
and the world is changing.
And that is something that as designers, right?
We're always gonna be involved in our ability
to solve problems, to make people as you say,
want to be a part of things.
It's sort of want to pick up a bottle
or a can of the United sodas at the store.
And just that feeling of like,
"Oh, I got to try that. I want to be a part of it.
I gotta follow them. I gotta engaged.
And I want to show up to a dinner party
with a bottle house."
And these things are always gonna exist in a physical world.
And I love creating things that are physical
and tangible and not on a phone.
And I think that's always been a part of my work
is making things that people hold and touch and hairy,
because I do think those things are a signal
of who we are as people,
but I do think the world is changing.
And I think things are are gonna be
sort of in a more virtual environment,
just like the one we are here now.
And I do think it's gonna change a lot of things.
And I am curious about that
and I have to do the work.
And I think to really understand it
because it's very easy to make fun
of people buying a million dollar JPEGs
and being like, "What's going on here."
But I do think that once I'm done
making those jokes and sort of the making fun
of the McRib NFT on my podcast
I'm gonna...
I do think there's a changing of the guard in terms
of our relationship and the way that technology
and the way that sort of brands are a part
of our everyday life.
And I think it's on designers to really kind of
to be at the forefront of that,
because in many ways we see into the future, right?
Like our job is to be like,
"Hey, here's what the future looks like.
And here's what your brand can look like
or can do in the future."
And I think for us we have to be looking
into sort of where we're going as culture.
And I do think it's gonna be a really interesting next five
to 10 years and I'm excited for it.
And I do have to sort of that...
This is where my sort of age,
I start to sort of feel behind the curve
because I'm no longer a 21-year-old kid
with my finger on the pulse of everything.
And so I have to.
That's why I also like young people
and many of them on my team,
they teach me as much as I teach them.
And it's been really helpful.
And it's been really wonderful
that sort of exchange of idea
and to really kind of figure out where we're going
because now...
-: That's powerful.
Good ideas come from everywhere,
something I always believe in.
-: Awesome.
-: And I'll ask you in the sense of time travel,
I'm gonna ask you to come.
We're gonna go back to your first day at Vitamin Water.
-: Oh man.
-: What would you tell young Center that first day?
What advice would you give yourself?
-: Yeah, just like trust the process.
I think that's kinda the feeling,
I think a lot of young people
and I definitely relate to them.
You're like, "What's my next move.
What's my thing to get to the next step,
to get to this career, that I wanna be this,
and I'm gonna be this, but I want to be this,
this is my role and this is what I want to do in the future.
And I gotta make like a million perfect steps to get to it."
And I often talk to young people
and they're very much overwhelmed
by the decision that they make today
and how it's gonna impact them in the future.
And I think I resonate with that idea
or that feeling,
because I often was thinking about that
but I do think sometimes you're not always in control
of everything that happens.
And I do think there's definitely sliding door moments
in my life where I think like,
"What if I would have taken this job here?
I would have done this.
Or I would have said no to this project
or something like this."
And like what my life would have been.
And so I do think you can plan for the future
and you should,
I'm not telling you to not sort of have goals
because to get to what...
Oftentimes I ask young designers like,
"What's your dream job?"
And they're like, "I don't know."
And I'm like, "Well, it's gonna be hard for you
to get your dream job if you don't know what it is
that you're trying to get in the future." Right?
And so, but if you do have a dream job,
you could set up your sort of pace
and your sort of steps to get there.
But I do think you do have to sort of
you have to take it a year at a time.
You do act like you can't be constantly stressed
and overwhelmed and worried about
sort of what's next
or what's coming after it
and what you're working towards,
because you gotta be in the present.
You have to be in the now,
you have to be kind of late.
Sometimes you have to take it one game at a time, right?
You have to be like, "Here's the game ahead of me."
And just like Brian Collins once said this,
"Put your head down and just do the work."
Like just put your head down
and just focus on what you're doing right now.
Don't be thinking about what it is you're doing next.
Just put your head down,
focus and do the work.
And good things will happen if you do that
and you treat other people with kindness
and passion and care and good things will happen,
but don't try not to think so much,
which is hard for a lot of people.
Like not try not to just overthink everything,
just like focus on your task at hand.
If you're a junior designer and you just got a job
at someplace, and you are like,
this is your first career, the industry,
paycheck just suck it up, just do the work
and kind of learn from other people.
And kind of just take it day by day.
And just be kind of appreciative
and kind of thankful that you are
in this amazing profession.
And if you have a client that is paying you,
or it gives you an opportunity
to work on your project that's huge.
It's amazing because that work,
if you do something great, great work will get you
to great work and great relationships,
we'll get you to other great relationships.
And it all compounds, but you got to sort of...
You can't just jump from one project to the end.
That's just not how anybody,
anyone that I've ever met that has been,
"A successful graphic designer in this industry."
They have a long story of experience
and the times where they did the work
and they put in their all, and at the end of the day,
those people are kind, those people are considerate.
They love what they do.
And they would be here if there was no money involved,
they truly believe that.
And I think when you talk to the Michael Bay roots
and the dirty nil mins
and some of the people that I look up to.
All of them are better people
than they are anything else.
And I think that's what has gotten to them
to the place that they're at.
-: I think that's an incredible way
to close our Fireside app today my friend.
Trust the process, keep your head down,
do great work and great work will then done
by incredible people.
So thank you Alex, for joining us
as you can see brand builder,
award winning brand thinker,
entrepreneur, strategists, and Brooklyn's own.
Thank you. -: We did it.
Thank you for joining us Alex.
And again and join us for our next Fireside Chat.
As we close out the year and look at leadership and design.
Thank you, my friend.
-: Thank you.
Thanks for having me and thank you to the AIGA
for putting this on and for doing all the work they do
to champion (indistinct)